When traders refer to the difficult trading environment, they often make reference to "choppy" or "noisy" markets. Usually their next sentences lament the "algos" and their impact upon markets. I find these to be expressions of frustration, not constructive formulations of trading challenges. Invariably, those lamenting choppy markets dominated by algos that "manipulate" markets engage in their venting--and then go back to trading as they've always traded...and continuing to lose money.